Enough that the range Officer at my range recognized them because the muzzle blast made a distinctive cat whisker pattern at 8 and 10, and 2 and 4 o clock. Ive probably picked up 300 cases of .38 the past few months and will continue to grab them as I see them, but whats nice is I can shoot more and put that money towards brass for .32 or .45 Colt, stuff that I never see at the range. Never got around to trying the T grips. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. Compac for my little finger to wrap around under the butt. I have tested lots and lots of different bullet and found them all to be great. Ethan Johns is a military professional with worldwide experience in specialized units. For example, a Glock 17 shot the HAP into 1.35 inches and the FMJ into 2.2 inches at 25 yards. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. For those who have issues using auto pistils, due ti arthritis or other medical issues with the hands an LCR or 642 is a great choice. 1.455 in. You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. Reloading .44 Spl. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. I do this for my .357s but this article is about .38 Special loads. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. : 1,266 1,472 Press. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. Youre describing Remington Multiball ammunition (R357MB)- I used to carry that stuff decades ago. And if youre doing that [shooting 158 grain bullets at 1200 fps muzzle velocity] with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. I cannot begin to fathom shooting 20,000 rounds out of that revolver! Maybe its just me, but having that tiny bit of extra length and weight in the cylinder that I was never going to use just kinda bothered me. Read my very long thread about "DR loads that don't suck". From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. head I use 3.2gr. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. The jump straight to relatively hot GI hardball challenged many students, and failure to meet standards meant being dropped from the course. This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. By As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. I load these bullets to the edge of the shoulder and use anywhere from 3-4 grains of TB. The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. NULLI SECUNDUS. http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp. Each of the classic loads is also economical. Anyone know where I can download a chart where all the powders burning rates (regardless of manufacturer) is listed. JHP, 158 gr. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. It doesnt appear like there is much of an advantage in using WST with lighter weight bullets. Id pay at least a dollar to see it. No matter where you look, the first mention in classic loads for the .38 Special is a 148-grain wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. Alliant listed 3.6 gr Bullseye as maximum (15000 psi) in 38 Special and 3.8 as max in 38 Special PLUS P (17000 psi) with 158 LSWC bullets. I only wish the brass was more available locally. You will find plenty of Red Dot loads there. Great article & thread!!! How can I tell if they are cast or swaged? Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. They all shot horrible at 25 yards. That for just a nice shooting load one cant beat 148gr wad-cutter for pure fun. Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. Required fields are marked *. Very forgiving with a straight wall case, and tons of bullet variety. The upside of the grainage is that the small charges mean more loaded rounds per pound of powderhelpful since Bullseye can take a while to reacquire once the container is empty. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. The bullets are seated flush in the case. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. Many reloading manuals also list an estimated pressure with a given load. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. Me too! I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. This pistol uses the .38 Special with a Remington wadcutter bullet seated flush with the case mouth. I was looking through the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual and see the bullets you are talking about. ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. This is an easy-shooting load that can cause some power-philes to tusk-tusk and comment. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. Going up to 3.9 Gr for +P. Most starting .357 reloading powder levels will fall in this .38 +P+ type reload, and the powder being used can be selected (faster or slower) based on barrel length. Use the lead bullet loads with the plated and you will be fine. Times across steel plate racks and many of my standard drills with the 200-grain SWCs rival my best easy-shooting 9mm results. 11/2/2022. I once had to quote the South Carolina Supreme Court when they had spelled it loathe., Regards, As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. RN, 160 gr. That being the case, I truly NEED as much ammunition as possible and the ability to defeat soft barriers such as auto windshields, sheet metal, drywall, doors, etc. Ive been reloading and shooting for over 40 years and love revolvers but 90% of the time my carry gun is a Sig 365 with a 12 round mag and a spare. Normal 38 spell loads for as long as I can remember were never loaded less than 800FPS and I have loaded for revolvers and autos such as my S&W mod 52 that only shoots flush wadcutters. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. WC, 158 gr. If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. Hornady In terms of thousands of rounds of range practice, though, that is a definite no-go in my book. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. Good point Len. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. 125 gr plated or 125 gr lead RN. I load a hard cast 125gn for my 38 special all the time. 357 LCR in 3 inch variant. The mild recoil of the mid-range load is a perfect mate to the .38s that most shooters own these daysthe airweight J-Frame or equivalent. The key to those rounds, in spite of their paltry muzzle velocity of something like 825 feet per second out of a snubbie, is their diameter and mass: they will make significant diameter holes and penetrate respectably in attackers. Which left me with the last two. The load is a great learning tool in .45 for beginner and experienced alike. Don't worry too much about lead/coated/plated/jacketed. Starting being near 3gr - ish. 5, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company I just dont like practicing with it. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 Although the .357 cylinders are the same length so they can be timed to a 642. My brother put CT laser grips on his wifes M36. Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. Your email address will not be published. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. [.38 Special] is a very versatile and useful round. Upload or insert images from URL. Minnesota. BrianEnos.com less to start.) One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck.. Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pick up any current gun magazine and youll be inundated with images of sexy black rifles. I can not be held responsible for. I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. The 4.0 grain load is relatively mild recoil and was accurate. The same volume of BE will weigh much more than than same volume of WST. If all you practice with is the easy comfortable stuff, its not really practice. Yeah, my wifes last gun, with +P it actually HURTS! SWC, 160 gr. DR loads (158gr Remington swaged LSWC over 3.6gr AA#2 in Winchester .38 Special cases) I shoot American eagle, remington factory,remington umc, and mag tech. A circa 1918 Colt gobbled them up, as did several other 1911s that can be particular about bullet profile. (Same issue found with a 12 oz. : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. Accurate's No. Regulator, SBSS #2255, Pawnee Station, Ro I & II. Just want to state for the record, that with one of the more heavy duty Corbin presses it is possible to easily swage some hard cast bullets. Even better, is get some 38 S&W brass. Never ransom rested it, but held 10 ring off sandbags. Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds. Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. looks like today. How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? If I do carry a revolver its my 642 with a laser grip in my right front pocket or my SW model 69 5 shot 44 mag. YOU WOULD BE WASTING YOUR TIME TRIMMING THE BRASS. Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner. Note the dark band of lube on the 3 lead bullets. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. I may have to rethink my plan. Modern .38 spl std HP load is more than enough, dont over think it. 01-10-2014, 06:49 PM #4. dverna. I completely understand the respect for the performance of the 327 Fed, but not being a big fan of the 357 Mag (or 38 SPL plus P for that matter) I havent been drawn to the 327. 4.2 gr. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. rattlesnake of a revolver made me bleed. And.those Hornady 158 HPs are easy to reload but I have never had one open up in a varmint of any sort. 38 Special 125 gr XTP American Gunner Item #90324 | 25/Box The American Gunner line of ammunition is a collection of tried-and-true, versatile loads that are popular with shooters for their target shooting, hunting or self-defense needs. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. 2 and No. Instead, Ive favored things like the K and L frame Smiths (5 screw pre-model 10 and 686 in my case) and Ruger revolvers for higher round count activities. . I have read some posts online from people who claim that it makes no difference whether the bullets are swaged or cast; and they can be loaded to the same velocity, but the swaged bullets will lead up a barrel faster because the lead is softer. I believe this particular bullet is meant for the 9mm,but drops at 358. Hodgdon gives starting load of 4.0 grains and 4.4 grains MAX. Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. Any clues for powder and starting loads???? 6.) Over 20,000 rounds, Ive found that theres rarely a wrong way to do .38 SPL. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). Like both the .38 and the .44 spl. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. The use of .38 +P+ level (25,000 27,500 psi) type reloads, in .357 brass. True enough that it doesnt make power factor for Custom Defensive Pistol in IDPA or major in USPSA competition. Speer .38 shot cup, 5 grains of UNIQUE, and (3) #1 Buckshot pellets dates back to the 70s as a Junk Yard Dog load. There are so many new powders today, its hard to keep up. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. Just dont shoot a rabbit with this load if you want to be able to eat any of it. Bullseye 3.2gr / 763fps --> 4.2gr / 892fps (max), Unique 4.3gr / 773fps --> 5.3gr / 944fps (max), 231 3.9gr / 733fps --> 4.8gr / 896pfs (max). What are YOU shooting? The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. Loads for .38 S&W: This short, little cartridge has been around since the 1870's and was most common in the "break-top" models. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. The mention of a Lee Loader somewhere above took me back to the good-old days. Data will be standard "book" .38 Special data and I'll not attempt to "hotrod" the loads. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. Load with 38 S&W data. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. I just bought some 158 gr SWC bullets that are pure lead. My sq. Zero 158 grain swaged SWC, Starline brass, Winchester or Federal primer, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimp. Home About Partners Contact. 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. I meant to say NRA. Really important to have a chrono if you're going to work up loads When I first bought my chrono, I was amazed at how HOT my loads were - unnecessarily. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. On 7/4/2018 at 11:57 AM, Bill Sahlberg said: There is nothing more accurate at PPC than 148 gr8 HBWC (lead) using 2.8 gr of 231 and a tight crimp with Starline 38 Special brass & a Federal Small pistol primer. Ive loaded some wadcutters to the point of being flush with the case mouth and big lead bullets almost to the front of the cylinder. These grips seem quite comfortable and afford a pinkie finger rest for improved control albeit with a certain loss of concealability. would also bridge the gap that the .38 versus .357 have in defensive loads. So if you find a "lead" load it is also a plated load. And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. For me, the 32 H&R Mag is my 357 Mag, and the 32 S&W Long is my 38 SPL. I have often thought about reloading .357 brass to .38 special velocities to get around that, but have just never decided to actually do it. 38 special is a great cartridge. is a good place to start. They are low because of swaged bullets. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! Thank you. I agree with your .38 Special assessment points for the very same reasons. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. The 9mm produces about 35,000 psi, The load you use will be up to your gun. At belly button range, very nasty load. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). defensive ammo. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. Is it more bulky? I stopped handloading around 1985, so Im not certain how much technology has changed in that area, but in general it sounds like our experiences are similar. Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. It would have been too hot. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. I've tried Berry's plated as well as Remington. accuracy. have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. Im a big fan of .32 revolvers, I do think they are a superior choice for carrying and shooting than .38 is, but that doesnt mean I think .38 or .357 sucks, I just dont think theyre the best choices for a small frame revolver. ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. Your email address will not be published. I started reloading 38 special as my first cartridge 8 years ago when I was 22, soooo.I have an old mans soul? Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. Depends on what kind of load you're after. Oh, I practice with it. Prefer to use the CT model 305 laser grips in lieu of S&W grips. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads. +P? 4.4 gr. Even though the gun was chambered for .357 Magnum, I plinked and practiced with a lot of .38s over the years. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. A 158 SWCHP at 850-875 fps from a snub. The design of this modern revolver makes the SW guns seem archaic. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. 3.) Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. 38 special was also my first cartridge to reload, and one of my greatest loves for reloading to this day. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. 3.8 gr. This is my plink load for the kids. Replaced w/ Altamont laminated wood, and later w/ open- back Pachmayrs- the less-pronounced finger grooves fit me better. It also shows that the loads were established using a 6" barrel, so regardless of what any published data shows, the chances of ever finding published data for the exact projectile and barrel length you are using, as well as the exact conditions you will be shooting in, would be nearly impossible. I keep it under my seat in case I get an unwanted intruder and I cant get to my IWB semi auto. You trade a little less speed for a little more mass but at snubnose velocities I really think the standard 158 grain slug gives the best penetration. This 1911 halved its normal so-so accuracy with 200-grain Hornady C/T SWC, shooting this nice two-inch group. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. So I expect recoil would be substantial and not very target-ish. I estimate that the price for each of the three loads runs between $7 and $8 per box of 50. .38 Special (Alliant Data) Warning! Left to right:148 gr. VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted. 110gr JHP! 300 Blackout Fine-Tuning: Finding the Right Barrel Length for Your Rifle. Would you like to react to this message? Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. Through the heyday of bullseye shooting over the various match courses of fire, there was probably a Mount Rushmore-sized mountain of powder loaded and combusted 2.7 grains at a time. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. 110gr JHP! Stylish But Serious: Kimber Super Carry Pro, Survival Savvy: Gearing Up for the Next Level, Force Multiplier: Knife and Gun Integration. LOL. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck?highlight=distinguished+++%2Bloads, Load question on Penn Bullets for Distinguished load. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. Its the kind of load that will make you fall in love with the 1911 all over again! He loves this gun and keeps it in reach 24/7. This would be for plinking for my wife's ~3" Rossi, so something light and fun to shoot would be great. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. But, with jacketed bullets that doesn't seen to be working. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) Warning! Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders. * Think that if a .44 spl. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Robert Frost. I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). The cold header swages a bullet in one or two strokes. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. No sh!t. of Bullseye, 148 gr lead DEWC and Federal 100 primers. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. 357 Magnum 35,000 https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. I started with a Lee Loader for my shiny new Python .357, because all the ammo I could find (in 1968) was lead semiwadcutters, loaded so hot they sloughed off the lead in the bore, so after a box you couldnt see any rifling, it looked like a smoothebore, and lord was it hard to clean!! Your previous content has been restored. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special.